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Hi Jason,
That’s really great to hear. I’m happy to hear that your perspective on God and his willing involvement is developing, you’re right, it’s amazing where we can notice God in places and times we never really though about.
I’ll defiantly take a look at that book “ Who you are When No One’s looking”. That is the real question to character, a tough one for sure. I’m currently reading “The Cost of Discipleship” by Bonhoeffer. It talks about what it means to be a disciple of Christ according to the scriptures and not the modern church. He was a modern martyr during World War II, he was a preacher and theologian who took his views of Chris to the gallows for the sake of the few remaining Christians in Germany. That’s a brief, his story it self is an amazing and encouranging tale. By the way, if you’ve never read about Christian myrtyrs, contrary to popluar conception of them being negative and morbid, I’ve found their stories deeply encouraging and eternally impacting in my life. A good book to start with is “Jesus Freaks”. The fact that they died for their faith in Christ is not the point of their stories, it’s how they lived so outragesously for Christ that the only way the governing people could shut them up is to kill them. That’s what I call devotion to the gospel.
Keep on praying and seeking the will of God in your life, the concert is just a means to an end, the event, our talents, all focused on Christ and our heavenly Father. I’m glad your exited, you should be. It sounds like you are on the right road. Keep on being diligent with your walk with Christ, and as he has put this passion and plan in your heart, he will provide to make it happen as well. In the end, the concert wouldn’t be worth having if the hand of God was not in the making of it , right? So keep on keeping on. On my side of things, I’m about to start fasting and praying for a couple of weeks regarding some new music we are in the middle of writing. Prayer is key. Fasting humbles us and helps us focus on God and his ways of seeing things. So, be encouraged, we are all in this together!
Regarding your question, that’s a great question. I had that question myself some time ago. It’s my opinion that in this Christian faith, we must never stop asking questions or we will never truly learn from God or each other. I’ll keep it as short and sweet as possible as many books and sermosn have been made off of this event, and I can’t do those writings and teachings justice. Basically, Jesus directly quoted Psalms 22:1. If you read the whole chapter, which we know Jesus was familiar with as he was trained as a jewish rabi, you can see the cries of a man for help. But it doesn’t stop there. Most theologians see Psalm 22 as a prophetical verse regarding the messiah( there are numerous scriptures in the old testament that prophesied details of the coming messiah, Jesus Christ). If you look at verse 18, this is a exact description of Jesus’s situation told of in the gospels. We can see that the other verses describe Christ’s feelings of pain and also Christ’s exalting of God as Lord over all, and finally being the winner in the end for all of man, present and future (Verse:31). So I believe that Jesus was being literal and He felt like his father was forsaking him, because in fact at that point in time Jesus was bearing all of the sin of the world. God cannot stand sin, and to see his son covered in it must have been the deepest pain a father could have. Yet God chose to carry out this painful and costly plan to save us from the power of sin and to be able to live like his son here on earth. This moment in Christ’s cruxifictino is a very deep, complicated, and revealing moment in Christ’s life and his part in God’s redeeming plan for man kind.
Please let me know if that made sense, or if you have any other questions I can help you with. I'll be more than happy to give it a shot!
-David
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Hello Mike,
Thank you for your comment and question, I hope everything is going well with you and your new bride! It’s always a great blessing to see two Godly people get married.
In regards to your comment; First of all, I want to make it clear that I have not created this blog as a stage for ideological arguments or theological debates. I do encourage open discussion, and I believe there is a distinct difference between the two. So, given this, I kindly leave you with my replies.
[Mike]"Where in scripture can you show me that our 'gut' feelings on things like Job Choices should be equated with God's will or the leading of the Holy Spirit? Should these things be unquestioned by us when scripture says to "test the spirits to see if they are true," are these things we should always follow?"
I never said that “gut” feelings should be equated with God’s will. Please don’t skew my words or take them out of context. What I was communicating was something entirely different. Here are some verses that talk about being led by the spirit more.
Acts 8:29
Acts 11
Acts 20:22
Acts 21:4
Acts 18:25
Acts 17:!6
Acts 6:10?
Romans 8:16
Romans 8:26, 27
Romans 12:11, 15:29
1 Cor 2:10
1 Cor 2:13
1 Cor 2:14
Glatians 5:!7
Galatians 5:25
[Mike]"I've always understood that quiet reflection and a sober attitude help make the best decisions, and I think that scripture's admonitions to a sober spirit back that idea."
Unfortunately, I can’t find a mention of "sober spirit” in scripture. (When I refer to the term "sober", I am not defining it as a simple peaceful state, but I see the term as the state of being generally un-emotional, rational and without zeal.) In my opinion, most biblical events involving God’s spirit leading people were anything but sober. Personally, I wouldn't list a "sober spirit" in the top 20 things to describe Jesus Christ. This is not to say a calm and resolved outlook helps in decision making. However, we are not talking about decision making; we are talking about being led by the Holy Spirit. Knowing the difference between the two calls for discernment and wisdom given by God Almighty. When dealing with the will of God for our lives, like the miracle of salvation for example, I find little quiet or sober about it. It’s a work of God that is usually filled with the boldness and joy of the Holy Spirit.
Even though we may disagree on some things, I purposefully never loose perspective that you are my brother in Christ and we are running the same race to glorify Him who died for our sins. I believe we agree on salvation by grace, the virgin birth, and pretty much everything else that is foundational to the faith. Feel free to let me know what you think or if you have any questions or comments regarding my replies, see you next week at church
-David
9 comments:
I have a lot to say in responce, most of which is in referance to your sqripture quotes. I'll email that to you so as to avoid extreme comment lengths, you may however post from them if you wish.
I'll post the last part of my message which clarifies my question, defines 'sober' and provides scriptural support.
With all of this in mind, I still have a hard time with the mystical emotive '
Okay, so far as "sober" the dictionary has the idea of quietness but also of saneness, or rational, the latter is my main emphasis. The leading of the spirit is doing what is right or godly by looking at the facts of the situation in light of the fact of God's character. As far as direct referances to Sober Spirit in the Scripture check out,
1 Peter 1.13
Therefore, prepare your minds for action, keep sober in spirit, fix your hope completely on the grace to be brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ.
1 Peter 4.7
The end of all things is near; therefore, be of sound judgment and sober spirit for the purpose of prayer.
1 Peter 5.8
Be of sober spirit, be on the alert Your adversary, the devil, prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour.
But for other exhortations to sobriety check out,
1 Corinthians 15:34
1 Thessalonians 5:6
1 Thessalonians 5:8
2 Timothy 4:5
The bulk of your referances are descriptions and the few that are exhortations are moral or gospel related. ALL of these however are exortations to 'be sober.'
Anyway, my question about your post is concerning this quote:
"When expecting to be led by God by his spirit inside of us, I have found it to be a peaceful, internal confidence, a “knowing” or a “faith” that is combined with a no-compromise/no-doubt mentality that this is God's will for some particular situation. This faith is provided by God and fueled by his word, and this is a practical example of when to live out by faith."
Where is this inward, subjective, existential 'gut' feeling in scripture? All of the verses you gave me were either the Spirit speaking directly to a person or moral application. You conscience is a good thing for moral decisions but you're right... it doesn't help with two good possiblities.
I look forward to your clarification, with the scritpure you cited to support the Spirit's leading in moral and gospel issues I agree, I just want to understand how this applies to Good VS. Good decisions. Take for example a missionary trying to decide to go to India or China? Is there a definiate 'will' of God that he can wrangle from God? Is he NOT in God's will if he picks the wrong one?
I hope you can see my trouble with all this not as a personal attack, I'm just trying to understand how you reconcile these things.
I hope you're having a great day, I'll see you Sunday,
Mike
Okay... So I don't know this joint well enough to send you a message on it.....
If you'd prefer I'll post it here or just facebook it or email it to you.
Let me know.
Grace and Peace,
Mike
Hi Mike,
I do stand corrected. Sober spirit is in scriptures, I apologize for my oversight. Regarding the rest of your questions, I'll have to reply when I have more time available. It's a subject not spoken of much in the church and if it is, there are basically two polar points of views on it with scripture to back up each.
I understand and appreciate you clarifying this isn't a personal attack.
You can post it here if you want, shouldn't be a problem.
-David
Hi David,
Thanks again for the effort you put into your responses. I guess my not understanding this comes from being taught that God and Jesus are the same. Am I wrong in this understanding? There are verses...sorry I can't quote it...that Jesus says the only way to Heaven is through God and then He will later say the only way to Heaven is through h]Himself. Which would mean they are actually the same. So if they are the same, then I guess that's where my confusion lies...why would Jesus ask 'Himself' why He was forsaken?
If I'm wrong on the whole Jesus=God thing, please explain.
This was actually the main thing that brought me so close to God in the first place. A friend was explaining to me that God and Jesus were the same, I didn't understand, so they decided to show me scripture and rather than just showing a few verses we decided to review the Bible daily. And here I am today, so close to Christ and motivated to get even closer!
Also, is your music public. Do you have a myspace band page or something? I would love to hear it!
Thanks,
Jason
Hey David I just thought I would give you an update on the charity concert. I've got into talks with and solidified the charity for a non-profit organization called Faceless International.
The org was co-founded by the lead singer of one of my favorite bands, Anberlin, and they raise awareness for causes such as fair wages for coffee farmers in Guatemala and human trafficking (the more than 27 million people all over the world that are slaves).
I think its a great organization and I'm very excited with the direction this is going!
Anyways, I just wanted to update you on my progress.
Hi Jason! Sorry it took me a bit, here are my replies to your recent post:
"I guess my not understanding this comes from being taught that God and Jesus are the same. Am I wrong in this understanding?"
No problem, I always enjoy your questions! They tend to remind me of the questions I had some time ago. So, yes, you are correct. Jesus and God are the same being. However, it’s an slightly more complex arrangement than Jesus=God. It’s more like Jesus+Holy Spirit+God the Father= One God. This is called the trinity, and many, many books and many many scholars have explained it way better than me, but I’ll give it a shot There are several examples people like to use, one of my favorites is the egg. There is a yolk, the egg white, and the shell. As a whole, you refer to it as an egg. All pieces are equally “egg”, but they all have separate properties and separate roles. Just like with God, you might hear the term “God head” in some old hymns. This term refers to the trinity which is God but consists of God the Father, the Holy Spirit and Jesus Christ. You will see all over the New Testament the dynamics between the three deities. Jesus said he only speaks what the Father said. He always refers to his father in heaven, God the father. Clearly they are not the same person. However, Jesus did claim to be God many times (but the important distinction is that Jesus never claimed to be God the Father). This is why we believe Jesus is God, he is devine, begotten of the father. In 1 John 1:1, we see Christ was in the beginning of creation along with the father. The three in the trinity are equally eternal and holy. This is a really deep and complex subject, it’s one that takes some time to get a handle of , and takes time to see it alive in the scriptures. It’s not that it’s hard to see, it’s just that there is so much of it that it takes time to observe it all. I hope you don’t take this as a definitive answer, I hope this merely points you in the right direction and you can see for yourself in the scriptures how the trinity works and what that means in your relationship to God. This is really an exiting subject for me because it really helped me in my understanding of God, and what Jesus had to say in the gospels, and all of the epistles afterwards. Basically this concept is a crucial one to help understand the New Testament. Let me know what you think, or if you have any questions on all of what I said, I know it’s a lot to take in at once. (And I’m sorry I don’t have any scripture references, I’m just short on time. If you need help finding stuff let me know and I can post some scriptures too)
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"Also, is your music public. Do you have a myspace band page or something? I would love to hear it!"
As you can see on my latest post we are working on making our music public, I’ll let you know when our CD is out and I’ll send you one
Hey David I just thought I would give you an update on the charity concert. I've got into talks with and solidified the charity for a non-profit organization called Faceless International.
Yes!! I actually have met the lady that coordinates faceless at a music festival this summer called “cornerstone”, in Illinois. I like Anberlin too! They are doing an amazing job. Coincidently, both of my parents are from Guatemala so I’m really glad this ministry is doing something there. I’m really proud of you , that you are taking bold steps toward your dream. Keep going. Keep me updated as things progress!!
Hmmm...unfortunately that didn't really make it clear. I wish it did, because it's the one concept I've been trying so hard to grasp. I mean I've been told the egg example before. And one of my best friends gave me the example of "you have yourself, your voice, and your soul" and God has "Himself, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit." And I get the basis of both of those examples, but I don't really understand when it comes into play. I have told myself that I have to remember its God I'm thinking about and not a regular person, so what applies to a situation with God may not relate to a situation with regular people. But then I wonder if that is really just me trying to find the easy way out of really trying to understand it. And while what I say does in a sense have a good defense behind it, I do want to REALLY understand the Trinity and REALLY see how it applies in the Bible, and right now I don't.
It all comes down to the crucifixion. Jesus knew He was supposed to be crucified. And even told certain people He healed not to spread the word of His miracles, because He was supposed to be crucified at a certain time. This was the prophecy, this was God's plan, Jesus knew this was to happen. Then He is crucified as planned and He asks why He was forsaken.....(I basically walked you through what goes through my head when trying to figure it out). So essentially I guess I just don't understand the Trinity.
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Keep up the work with the CD. I'm keeping you and your band in my prayers. It sounds very exciting. I'm really interested to hear what you guys play. I love music. I just started to reteach myself piano and I'm currently working on a major musical project, which I'll let you know about as soon as it's official.
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Yea Faceless is an organization I'm really excited about being involved with. That's really cool about your parents being Guatemalan. South America (and Asia) are two continents I really want to visit someday!
I held auditions this past Saturday and unfortunately they didn't go well. I only have 2 talents set and they are 2 that I already knew would be a part of the concert. My goal is to get at least 7 more. Unfortunately I'm not sure where to look so I'm going to try the friends of friends of friends route. And of course I will pray that performers are introduced into my life.
I will definitely keep you updated on how everything is going. I'm back in class again after a bit of a break and in the midst of all my crazy papers this charity concert is something that really keeps me going through it!
Indeed I can be a horrible friend at times!!! I'm so sorry it's taken me so long to respond to your post. Life has been crazy busy. But that's no real excuse, please forgive my delay.
I think you understand the Trinity to a point, but I can see where it gets foggy for you. As I mentioned before, when Jesus said "why did you forsake me?" he was quoting a pslam, but he knew the answer to the question. It was more of a statement than a question. The statement being the entire prophetical psalm. Just to prove even more that this was in fact orchestrated since back in the OT. This may or may not help you. I know the trinity can be tough. Frankly, sometimes it makes me have to sit and think sometimes. It's a complex subject that they spend months teaching it at seminary. Sometimes I have the yearning to go to seminary just so I can have all of this (and other) stuff perfectly clear in my head from a biblical perspective. I'm sorry I can't be of any more help on this subject, I'm going to research it more and hopefully I can have a more meaninful answer for you later.
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Thank you for your prayers, they have been effective!! We have 3 songs going now, they are about 95% writen and arranged.
let me know when you music project is official! i'd love to listen to what you have.
I'll let you know when we have some tracks finished, i'll post it on the blog when were done and maybe i can email you the mp3's or something.
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Any updates on the concert? Any more bands sign up? Any new ideas or developments?? Let me know how that's going!!
Hey no worries. I've been busy myself. If it wasn't for so many papers to do I probably wouldn't be able to come to the computer as much either. So I completely understand.
In the weeks since, my heart has grown so much stronger in Christ. I am so blessed and I feel Him within in me. A part of me as I do things in life.
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I hate to keep asking questions about the trinity. I almost feel like the little kid that constantly asks "why?" But I have to ask, cuz I wonder about it. I saw somewhere else that explained the Trinity as this: God, through the Son, by the Spirit. I think I can actually say that I understand the Trinity, I'm confused with the crucifixion. Ok this is the part that makes me feel like the kid asking "why?" If the "Why have you forsaken me?" was more of a statement than a question, wouldn't that confuse a lot of people? Like myself for instance haha. I know Jesus sometimes talked in parables and I believe the reason He did that was to help people understand His meaning. So then why say something confusing?
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I am very excited to hear the songs!
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As for the talent show/concert, unfortunately a group of dancers actually dropped out. But I have 3 talents now. I want to get at least 9, so I'm still better off than my last post. It's tough because people are busy and its hard to get people to commit, especially since we don't have a set date. Ironically, I can't set a date until I have the talent set. But in the upcoming weeks myself and my talent scouts are going to push to find talent.
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As always thanks for the help, it really has helped me on my path closer to Christ.
Merry Christmas and God bless you, your family, and friends!
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