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I got a very interesting comment on the last post, which I would like to reply to here as another post. This one is a bit on the long side… so let’s see where this rabbit hole leads us.
Hello Believerwith1question,
Thank you so much for posting a comment on my little ol’ blog, and thank for bringing up all of these interesting questions. I’m happy you did. I'm sorry it took me a bit to get back to you on this, but I've been crazy busy lately. We have been working with a new electric guitar player and I have been out of town on business…I also had to put some time and thought into this before posting back to you.
I’m not a theologian or pastor, but I love to wrestle with these kinds of questions. Some have simple answers, some have complicated answers, and others have no clear answers. I’ll try my best to cover everything you mentioned.
“When you do get your answer will God actually speak to you? Will you hear His voice?” Maybe, it is possible. Some modern Christians have heard an audible voice from God, but I have not experienced this before.
Deuteronomy 5:24: 'And you said, "The LORD our God has shown us his glory and his majesty, and we have heard his voice from the fire. Today we have seen that a man can live even if God speaks with him.’
So, we can see that God has and does speak to his people audibly. However, If you take the whole bible and look at it from 10,000 feet, you’ll notice that God didn’t really audibly communicate with mankind all that much. A lot more was communicated through prophets, and the Holy Spirit inside of his people. That being said, I’m not specifically expecting for him speak to me audibly, nor do I really need him to. Most importantly I’m not limiting my expectation of his response to my prayers; He is a very creative individual. If He wants to speak to me audibly, that would be cool. If He wants to use circumstance, other people, The Holy Bible, or His Holy Spirit inside me, that’s awesome too. For me, waiting on God’s answer also means keeping a very watchful eye on the particular way He will answer. I find that God doesn't always answer in ways that we expect.
"Or will it be more like your conscience leading you towards a certain path? And if it is more like your conscience, then how do you know it is God and not just your conscience?" I’ll assume you are using the moral and logical definition of the term “conscience”. If so, conscience and being led by God can be different things sometimes. I don't think they are separate, but one does cover ground the other doesn't. Conscience usually pertains to things that are right and wrong. The Word of God and our consciences pretty much keep us in line day to day, in making correct moral decisions that glorify God and ultimately benefit our fellow man. But what about choices between right and right? Choices between Job A and equally as good and moral Job B? This is when being led by God comes in and conscience is no longer that helpful. As far as how to know when God is speaking to you, God has made many examples in the Bible of how and when he does it. Even so, different people might have different experiences with it. I can only give you my point of view and opinion: When expecting to be led by God by his spirit inside of us, I have found it to be a peaceful, internal confidence, a “knowing” or a “faith” that is combined with a no-compromise/no-doubt mentality that this is God's will for some particular situation. This faith is provided by God and fueled by his word, and this is a practical example of when to live out by faith. This is a very complex subject that I am barely skimming over, and I’m sure dozens of books have been written about this subject alone.
2 Corinthians 5:7: ‘We live by faith, not by sight.’
In my experience, the typical problem is usually not me understanding or hearing God, most of the time the problem me simply obeying. As you all know first hand, by nature we are quite disobedient to authority. Something else that needs to be mentioned here, although a well-known thought, is that sin separates us from God. However we forget sometimes the implication of this fact in our communication with God. The greater our rebellion towards God, the harder it is to hear his voice and be led by him. This has to do with the rebellious nature of our sin and the consequent state of our heart towards God. Please note that this is not talking about separation from God in regards to one’s salvation.
Psalm 66:18:"If I regard wickedness in my heart, the Lord will not hear"
Isaiah 59:2 "But your iniquities have separated you from your God; and your sins have hidden His face from you, so that he will not hear".
“How do I know when I'm hearing God's voice?” I've asked myself that many times in the past. Unfortunately, there is no clear-one line answer for this. However, there are some clues to this found in His word that can lead you in the right path. There are many ways to know if indeed it was God's voice. First and foremost it will never conflict with the Word for God in any way. Generally the more you hear from and confirm that is was really God communicating with you, the easier it is to hear him the next time. That’s easily said having known God for a long time, but for someone starting out in their relationship with God, this can be a very difficult thing to grasp at first. It’s like learning how to snowboard, you’ll end up on your face most of the first couple of days. After a while, it’s nothing but smooth boarding. We get more familiar with his voice as time goes on.
John 10:24-27: ‘The Jews gathered around him, saying, "How long will you keep us in suspense? If you are the Christ,[c] tell us plainly."25Jesus answered, "I did tell you, but you do not believe. The miracles I do in my Father's name speak for me, 26but you do not believe because you are not my sheep. 27My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me.’
Here is a New Testament example of believers being led by the Holy Spirit.
Acts 13:1-4 : 1’In the church at Antioch there were prophets and teachers: Barnabas, Simeon called Niger, Lucius of Cyrene, Manaen (who had been brought up with Herod the tetrarch) and Saul. 2While they were worshiping the Lord and fasting, the Holy Spirit said, "Set apart for me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them." 3So after they had fasted and prayed, they placed their hands on them and sent them off. 4The two of them, sent on their way by the Holy Spirit, went down to Seleucia and sailed from there to Cyprus.’
God can confirm his voice through circumstances and situations, by making certain things happen at certain times. God can confirm his message by the Holy Spirit inside of us, and leading us with his peace that is beyond what we can understand through our conscience or human logic. God leads through peace, not confusion.
Philippians 4:7: And the peace of God, which transcends all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.
God can confirm his leading with faith inside of us. God also can confirm his leading with the wisdom from many fellow believers.
Proverbs 24:6 ’For by wise counsel thou shalt make thy war: and in multitude of counselors there is safety.’
As a side note here, the Word of God shows us that while listening for God's voice, we must be in a humble state before God.
2 Chronicles 7:14: 'and My people who are called by My name humble themselves and pray and seek My face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, will forgive their sin and will heal their land.’
That is why fasting is mentioned in the Bible in connection with prayer.
Esther 4:16:"Go, gather together all the Jews who are in Susa, and fast for me. Do not eat or drink for three days, night or day. I and my maids will fast as you do. When this is done, I will go to the king, even though it is against the law. And if I perish, I perish.
On the flip side of the coin, fasting can be done for the wrong reasons as well.
Luke 18:9-13: ‘To some who were confident of their own righteousness and looked down on everybody else, Jesus told this parable: 10"Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11The Pharisee stood up and prayed about himself: 'God, I thank you that I am not like other men—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.' 13"But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, 'God, have mercy on me, a sinner.'
Fasting is a multi faceted practice, but one of those facets is the humbling of the believer before God Almighty.
So it turns out this rabbit hole has a lot of places to explore. I know these aren’t complete “oh, well, that fully answers my question” type answers, but they are a window into what the Bible has to say about these things. Hopefully this reaffirmed and encouraged you in where you are in your walk with God, and that the truth in the Word of God found a place in your heart to give you peace. Please let me know your thoughts and I’d love to keep this dialog going with you and anyone who wants to join in the discussion. May God’s peace and spirit lead you as you seek His face.
In Christ’s Love,
David
11 comments:
Hey thank you, this is incredible. You went through a lot to get me the answer. I appreciate that. Right now my schedule has been crazy busy. Grad school has me writing about 3 papers a day. But I will respond as soon as I get a chance....probably some time this weekend. I did read it and I have a lot to say. Thanks again!
David! I randomly was searching for blogs through facebook and found that you have one. This post it so wonderful; it's great to see the time and effort you put forth in it. Hope all is going well buddy.
en el amor de Dios!
Travis
Ok...let's see how I can follow up on this. First off, amazing post. You truly have a gift. Keep up the inspirational words.
I would say 2 things stood out for me:
1) The more we rebel from God, the harder it is to hear--Like you said that sin is one of the basic things we all learn when studying Christ, but we all fall to it too. It makes sense though. I compare it to doing drugs. People do drugs to get high and gain some kind of pleasure, unfortunately it is not God's high. And these druggies are so into the drug..the sin..that they've lost sight of God and naturally when you lose focus it would be harder to hear.
2) "God leads through peace, not confusion." That really stood out for me, because in my search for direction with God I've had so many ideas of what I should do with my life, what direction I should go with. But like my Job A/B/C example I couldn't settle on the right job. And right when I read that, there is one event in my life that popped into my mind that has actually constantly been popping into my mind in my search. This one event in my life was something that from the bottom of my heart, through every fiber of my soul, and (as I've recently discovered) with the strength of the Holy Spirit I was certain I had to do, it was the right thing to do.
I've always been big on world peace. And in my undergraduate senior year an opportunity arose for me to put together a concert/talent show of sorts in the name of world peace. I was the president of an organization then and I had the resources necessary to put it together and I did it. And when I was on stage talking about world peace it felt right being on stage. I knew the show was meant to be.
Now here I am a semester or so into grad school and the one thing I've been certain about it putting together another show. One of the biggest issues with the undergrad show was since it was an organization event I feel like the message got lost in translation and people just went for a talent show. Fast forward to now and I'll be doing it without the organization, erasing the idea of it being a talent show, and instead making it a full on charity event.
And that's where it kind of just stops. Because even though I feel deep in my heart and soul that this charity event is what I am supposed to do, I don't have the resources I had in undergrad. My resources consist of a couple ideas of organizations to donate the charity to and one performer...which is better than none, but I think a really good charity event needs more than one performer...and I'm right in Dallas, Tx which I think is a great city for an event, but I don't know how to start.
And that's when I start trying to think of new ideas, when I start going to Job B, C, D, etc...but it always comes back to this event. I know this is the event to do. I know it....
I don't know if any of this really makes sense to you. I had a little over 3 hours of sleep, so I'm hoping I didn't veer off topic.
I guess it all comes down to that I believe with all my heart that God has laid down the current goal for me. I just can't figure out how to reach that goal...I read and study the bible most days. I pray daily, and I'm trying to stay on the narrow road. But I can't see the missing piece of the puzzle.
Anyways, I really hope you can make some kind of sense out of this. Your words were really helpful in guiding me, and hopefully you can follow up on this.
Oh by the way, the believerwith1question name doesn't really go with this post...my name's Jason.
Hi Jason,
it's great to hear from you and thank you for writing what you did. I'll reply more in depth later this week on this comment page, I think you are on the right road so far :)
-David
Hi Jason,
Sorry I'm a bit late on my response here.
1) Yes, that's a fair analogy. Our focus on God is intricately connected to our willingness to obey or disobey him. It's an interesting connection that takes prayer and introspection to see the effects of it in our own lives.
2) I know what you mean, the feeling to just know you are doing what you are supposed to be doing. For me, that's leading worship. I also understand the frustration you feel in that you don't have the adequate resources or people to do what you feel you need to do. I've been there a lot, it's one of my greatest frustrations regarding music and worship. First of all, don't let that stop you from working towards your dream of putting on this event. If God has placed it on your heart, he will provide everything else to make it possible. Your calling may not be your profession right now, or ever, and that's okay. I've been leading worship (my calling) for over ten years and it has never been a source of income for me. I hope that in the future music will be my profession, but until then I will work at Job A/B/C(my profession) to fully glorifying God with the quality of my work, and hopefully see my coworkers come to know God in a life changing way. So to give you some practical advise as to what the "missing puzzle piece" is, here we go: it's being at the right place with the right people, with lots and lots and lots of prayer. The right place and the right people are the hard part, but God will direct you to these with lots and lots of prayer. I have a full band right now, but I started out doing solo worship for a while. I prayed for a bass guy, I got one. I prayed for a drummer, I got one. I prayed for an electric guitar player, I got one. Each took about 3-4 months of focused prayer and expecting God to provide. I hope my example can be encouraging to you, your event may not be totally a reality yet, but make intentional efforts to meet the right people in the right places that can help you pull this off.
So, to conclude, you're doing good, your on your way, you now just have to focus your time and available resources to work up towards the goal of having this event. Don't let discouragement get the best of you. Find people that have the same passion for world peace that you do to encourage you as you go. Pray with faith believing that God will provide the place, the people and the money.
I hope this helped some and I hope you got more sleep this week :) God bless you bro, and let me know what you think about all of this...
-David
Hmmm..... David I'm not clear on your conception of the inner leading of the Holy Spirit. Where in scripture can you show me that our 'gut' feelings on things like Job Choices should be equated with God's will or the leading of the Holy Spirit? Should these things be unquestioned by us when scripture says to "test the spirits to see if they are true," are these things we should always follow? I've always understood that quiet reflection and a sober attitude help make the best decisions, and I think that scripture's admonitions to a sober spirit back that idea. As well as Paul's famous... "that you may find what the will of God is, that which is good acceptable and perfect." I was thinking about this same topic a little while back, click on my blog and tell me what you think. The post is titled "on the will of God."
Grace and Peace,
Mike
Hey thanks David. I just finished up my finals and will be on break for a bit. I'll try and respond some time during the break, but I'm also going to be avoiding the computer as much as possible because my classes keep me at the computer waaay more than I should be...so I'm going to try and use my break to stay away and perhaps work on that charity concert.
But thanks again your inspirational words...and I will respond when I get the chance.
Hi David, I can't thank you enough for your encouragement. I took about two weeks off after finals and now I'm back in class. During those 2 weeks certain things fell into place that allowed me to be closer to Christ. I had been doing bible study with a friend of mine who taught Sunday school. That friend moved to San Antonio and has been really busy with the moving process so during those two weeks I didn't get a chance to review the bible with the person, but rather than completely losing focus I chose to pray more and especially during the time that I would have been reading the bible instead.
In general I've noticed that my life involves God more than I ever thought would happen to me. Just about everything I do I think about God's relation to it. Even when I stumble off the narrow road I think about God. (Which brings me to an interesting quote, "People who walk with Christ may stumble, but He NEVER lets them fall.")
Also during this break a friend of mine happened to give me a book titled Who You Are When No One's Looking. The book is a great book I recommend that teaches character qualities of being Christian. I am strong in my beliefs and values, but the book has allowed me to focus on really being true to God at all times in my life.
As far as the charity concert goes I feel like I am close to something. I don't know what it is yet, but I feel that I'm barely grasping onto something. And I believe that I am going to reach it soon. I know that I have to pray and really focus on my relationship with Christ to understand what it is that I'm so near to. And I'm excited about that.
So thanks again for the encouragement. In these next few days and just in general I will be praying more and focus more on my relationship with Christ and will hopefully see what I feel I'm close to grasping.
When I do reach that understanding then I will tell you here.
...I do have a question. Something bible related that I've wondered since I read it. I asked my bible study friend, they couldn't explain it clearly. Possibly you could---When Jesus is being crucified, why does He ask God why He has forsaken Him?
And any insight you have on the rest of my message is always welcome too.
Thank you,
Jason
Hi Mike and Jason,
Thank you both for your comments and questions, I am deeply sorry I have taken so long to respond. Life has been crazy lately. I will start working on responses now and should have something for both of you by the end of the week. Thanks!!
-David
No worries, David, I appreciate all the effort you put into your responses.
I look forward to seeing what your write.
Hey Mike and Jason, I've posted my replies in a new post on the front page. I really appreciated your comments and questions!!!
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